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How They See - Issue #20: Andrzej Pągowski on democracy in culture, censorship and aesthetics of Polish street

Andrzej Pągowski is the author of many iconic posters, he is widely acclaimed and has won numerous in

How They See

November 14 · Issue #20 · View online
How They See will help you to meet artists from all over the globe and understand their perception of art. Published weekly on Saturday.

Andrzej Pągowski is the author of many iconic posters, he is widely acclaimed and has won numerous international rewards. He gained recognition for his movie posters but is one of the artists who don’t confine in any specific convention. He has also designed memory plaques, music videos or theatre scenographies and was the artistic director of a few magazines. Among them, I would like to mention the Polish edition of Playboy. He is one of the few artists who had a chance to design an author cover of this magazine.
His works are held by the Museum of Modern Arts in New York
You can find more about Andrzej Pągowski on his website or Instagram.

Good evening. We are having our conversation at 10pm, the day before I have called you at 11am to confirm our interview. Your work during the night is legendary. How do you rest, working at such times?
Already in college, both due to studying and quite an intense social life, this work moved to the night. Then it turned out that having creative ADHD, it is much easier for me to focus on work and creativity when there is peace, no phones, no kids, when there is no distraction. Over the years it has become the rule, and because I am a freelance professional, I have somehow organized myself so that I can work at this time. I also like working at this time, I admit it.
However, I have two jobs. The first one is my agency, where I go around 1 pm and I work there until 6:30 pm or 7 pm. Now there is a pandemic and we have various limitations, but in the past, regardless of whether I was visiting friends in the early evening, at a vernissage, premiere, or in the cinema, then, after returning at 10 pm, 11 or even midnight, I would sit down in my studio and work. As I don’t drink alcohol, I don’t have the problem that I have to drink at parties and later I feel tired. On the other hand, there is something to it that I rest here and feel the best in my studio, it relaxes me.
During the pandemic, many people made me upset by saying: “You are so lucky that you can just sit and draw”. I draw better if I charge my batteries during the day. However, when I didn’t have a chance to charge those batteries, I fell into depression and had some mental problems. I have to meet people, I have to be with them, talk to them, watch things to load my eyes and head. After that, I can actually lock myself in the studio and sit for a few hours.
I start the day at 10:30 am or 11:00 and then time somehow flies.
I raised the subject of work during the night because I thought the artist is one of the few bastions of individualism. When I observe various trends, for example on the Internet, and imposing a specific life model on other people, I want to show that there is also a different path. It’s not that everything has been settled, but everyone has to work it out for himself.
I believe that there is no democracy in culture and there should be no democracy. Culture should be individual and the artist should dictate what and how he wants to say. You cannot tell an artist how to play or how to create. However, today, unfortunately, various populisms have caused it. I have indeed managed to enter a new profession, to new media with my name which is a brand. I must admit that I feel this respect for my name and, perhaps to say brutally, I use it. As I am in this situation therefore I don’t have to do everything, prostitute myself with every order when I don’t like it.
However, I have such situations when the client suddenly gets carried away and begins to lecture me. I always tell my favourite anecdote that I come to the doctor and say: “Doctor, I must have a sick appendix.” The doctor asks me to lie down and starts examining me on the right side. Then I say, “Sir, he is on the left,” the doctor replies, “Sir, he is on the right,” to which I keep: “But I probably know better, it is on the left.” And if he operated on me on the left, this is how it will end when someone interferes with my project.
Andrzej Pągowski
Andrzej Pągowski
You outran my next question about populism. This year, we celebrated the 40th anniversary of the August Agreements, the beginning of political changes in Poland. I was born in 1984 and I know this period mainly from stories and books. However, You had a unique opportunity to create in the previous system and continue artistic work after its change to this day. How is it with this creative freedom in Poland now, in comparison to that time before the transformation?
There is no creative freedom at the moment. I will tell you about such a situation, not so distant. In 1994 I’ve created a poster “Papierosy są do dupy” (ed. “Cigarettes suck”; if translated directly, in Polish it’s “Cigarettes are to the ass”). It is a totally iconic poster and if we talk about iconic things, it can be said that it is a model example. This, of course, happened outside of me, because I carried out an order from the Ministry of Health. The poster was met with tremendous aggression by adults, MPs, politicians and various people, because for state money from the Ministry of Health, work with the word “ass” was created. Through all the interrogations, conversations and the like, where we had to explain why this and not otherwise, I went through quite victoriously. The victory was because on television Minister Żochowski said: “Ladies and gentlemen, we all really know that they suck and let’s give it a rest”, which finished the matter.
Today I made a poster related to oncology, anal cancer, which is a very popular disease among men. Fascinated by the effects of the poster “Cigarettes Suck” and its cult character, I made a poster “Don’t have cancer in your ass”. Today’s ministry said it was a vulgar poster and it did not deserve to be shown. It asked for a change. The Minister of Health cannot afford to say that this is how we need to talk today and that the poster must reach people, it must be strong.
Well, and this is what it looks like today that this creative freedom is censored by people who have no authority to do so. Under the PRL (ed: The Polish People’s Republic - the official name of Poland during the communist times) there was at least censorship, this censorship was political and you knew what it was about. Today, however, this censorship is everywhere, there is fear, there are various opportunisms. It’s not a nice situation.
I would also like to make such a bold statement, that the differences between the old and the new system, in this particular topic we are talking about, are not very big. I would also add the notion of “the offence against religious feelings”, which for example resulted in the removal of works from the National Museum in Warsaw., including “Consumer Art” by Natalia LL among others.
In the PRL (ed: The Polish People’s Republic), everything was very clear, it was black and white, there was censorship and this and no other situation. Today, however, I don’t really know who is censoring me. It is very good that you said about the National Museum because it is a situation that I mention many times in my conversations. If a 9-year-old child looks at images of a woman eating a banana and sees it as sexual, the prosecutor should immediately visit this family and check what is going on there. Because a 9-year-old child, not watching porn or adults in such a situation, is not capable of such association. No matter how erotic was the way the woman ate this banana. This is out of the child’s reach. If it is true that this child was so shaken that the mother had to write a letter to the director of the museum, then the child must have faced such a situation. If we build certain images in the back of our heads that impose our perception of what we are watching, then such scenes are created.
I have a dozen or so erotic posters on my account. I remember that there was a guerrilla film once, during which a woman’s breast appeared for a split second. I didn’t even understand why this breast showed up there. Then, in all the pictures, that one scene with bare breasts was shown, which was a micro percentage of the film. I was making a poster for this movie, but I don’t remember the title.
There are times when a creator uses nudity to shock me, I’ve never done anything like that. All the posters in which I used erotic elements followed the topic or anecdote I wanted to tell about the film. None of these posters today, in the era of supposedly powerful freedom, would have a chance to hang on the street. Neither “Sztuka kochania” (ed: “The Art of Loving”), on which two dogs copulate, nor “Damy i Huzary” (ed: “Ladies and Hussars”) with a female womb, nor “Tabu” (ed: “Taboo”) with a female womb in a wreath in the form of a bird’s nest, and finally the “Łuk Erosa” (ed: “Arch of Eros”) with a male phallus. But then they were hanging and no one had any associations, it did not offend anyone. People treated it as a work of art because the poster was sacred. The poster was the Polish School of Posters, it was created by artists.
Today, every person, every average Kowalski, begins to meddle and pretend to be smart. At most, I am annoyed by those street surveys where people start to get wise about topics they don’t have the foggiest idea about. If this is how it works, let’s not talk about any freedom in art, because there is no such freedom.
Andrzej Pągowski
Andrzej Pągowski
In such case, how do you function in a reality where everyone can comment on any topic and is a specialist in everything?
I have an angel’s heart and sometimes it makes me feel stressed when I listen to all these statements, but I don’t let them walk all over me. For years, I have earned the reputation of an honest graphic artist who does not do this art for himself. Of course, I use the fact that I made 1600 or 1700 posters, I won several hundred awards, that the name Pągowski is a company that you come to and you know what you will get. But it is the result of 43 years of work. However, if today a youngster wants to be in the same place as me, without spending all those hours in the studio, it cannot be done. There is jealousy and some strange situations that I observe.
However, as I said before, I managed to gain the opinion of a man who works for a client, usually for a director or actors. Agnieszka Holland (ed: Polish director, Academy award nominee) once told me: “you know what, I am always waiting for your poster, because I never know what you will bring me”. A lot of directors like to work with me because they say they respect this or that artist, but in fact it’s always the same poster. It has slightly different lettering, but essentially the style dictates what to expect. However, in my case it is the creative ADHD I mentioned at the beginning, that carries me and sometimes I create with the phone, sometimes by zooming in a part of a sketch from a notebook on a Xero. It is different each time. When I enter the exhibition later, I always have the impression that I entered a collective exhibition with several dozen authors and each of them made their own poster. Suddenly I see that it is all signed with my name.
Let’s make a little digression. There is something about this diversity. When I was doing research for our conversation, I found a postcard with a poster by Jakub Erol for the film “Alien”. You created a poster for the sequel: “Aliens”. I am fascinated by the fact that the perception of the film on these posters is completely different, which is not common nowadays.
Americans show our posters, for example for the movie “Close Encounters of the Third Kind” and wonder if Poles watched these films at all. Regarding the example you gave, frankly speaking, I do not remember exactly whether I watched this “Aliens” then. I look at this poster and I think what crossed my mind to do it like this? Maybe I was looking at photos?
In those days, it also often happened that if a given artist could not make a poster, then for example I was obliged to replace him, but I could not watch the film. And maybe, for example, Kuba Eroll couldn’t, especially when he was doing the previous one. When I look at this poster, despite the fact that it has its huge fans, what surprises me, I wonder what crossed my mind to do it in this style. I don’t like it, some people like it very much.
In any case, the two posters we are talking about are clearly different from each other. Nowadays, the quality of movie posters varies.
It seems to me that I made much better posters for Polish films. I was much better at working with people I was close to, I could talk to them and learn something. In the case of foreign films, the film was watched first and then the poster was made.
Please remember that we made a tremendous amount of these posters. You talk about “Alien”, it is a cult movie, but apart from that, there were several hundred GDR, Romanian and Bulgarian films that needed to be illustrated. For a few of these films, I managed to make some pretty good posters. On the other hand, when I look at my possibilities from that period, I am not hiding and I will say brutally that with demoludist films we played a bit.
Let’s close the poster digression for now and return to the topic of the artist’s functioning in an environment where everyone can be a specialist in everything. How do you deal with criticism? To put it directly: with hate.
Honestly, I don’t experience hate that directly affects me. Strong hating begins when high-profile topics arise. However, this is not hating that appears on my pages, but somewhere on the internet, in the comments under the articles. Such an example is the logo of the Pomeranian Voivodeship, which, out of nowhere, has been compared, I will be brutal here, to panties stained with poop and women’s period. A disgusting comparison that came out in a great wave.
A journalist from Gdańsk called me and we talked about it. I replied that I wash my panties every day and I have not experienced such situations, and someone who wears such panties may have come across such a comparison. My statement was published and on the second day comments ran out, the media stopped. Now, when someone wants to bake me, I reply that I have such a favourite picture of this logo on the train, thank you for reminding me about it because I am proud every time I visit the Tricity and watch it.
In this context, it is also worth mentioning the fee that is published in the case of public procurement. Internet users do not know how it works and, for example, write: “Pągowski simply wrote Pomorskie (ed: Pomeranian) and got 90 000 Polish zlotys”. It was so in this case that no one bothered to calculate how much money was spent on e.g. research. My fee was maybe 1/3 of this amount. I often see such discussions about logos, and as you know, all Poles consider themselves as experts in it. If people would find out that for a simple sign consisting of two dashes, the author got 500 000 dollars, they would go crazy. They say: “But I also can do it!” But you didn’t do it.
In the case of Pomorskie, internet users also behaved like that and commented that they could write in this way. Well sorry, but I saw a very clear difference. I wrote Pomeranian 200 times before I found this one composition, and it was assembled probably from three pieces.
Also, basically, I do not enter into a discussion, everyone has the right to judge as they want. On the other hand, if someone crosses the line and starts acting rude, I react the same. I have no problem being rude and mean to a man who behaves this way. I treat my Facebook pages as my home and I immediately remove the people who come to my house, put their feet on the table and spit. This is not my thing at all.
You mentioned young artists who want to jump to the top very quickly. I have such an observation from a few years ago, from a visit to the poster fair in Warsaw, where you were signing the book: “Być jak Pągowski”(ed: “To be like Pągowski”), an interview with Dorota Wellman. As we walked between the stands with my wife, we noticed that there were creators who had no artistic education. What is your opinion on this matter?
You don’t get talent at the Academy of Fine Arts. You can learn techniques there, face an artistic profession, although this profession cannot be completely learned. My daughter graduated from the academy with one of the best professors, and she learned her profession at my agency because the academy does not pay attention to it. It trains the artist, not a professional employee.
It does not matter if you have graduated or not, whether you are self-taught or not. Talent is inborn, then talent has to be developed. It is often manifested in sport. If you run great but don’t exercise every day, you won’t get results. I remember that Otylia Jędrzejczak (ed. Polish swimmer, Olympic medalist) once told me how many hours she used to spend in the pool. You also have to be very humble to the craft. There are creators who find it very easy, and some who are artisans.
Of my friends, Andrzej Mleczko or Edward Lutczyn have not graduated from any academy. One of them probably graduated from the Cracow University of Technology, and the other from the AGH University of Science and Technology, so it doesn’t matter. Just as they say old age is overrated, so is university overrated. Studies give a nice time between a child who draws nicely and an adult who will live off it, they give 5 years. This is the time to face it. Besides, there is competition, other students, better and worse professors and grades.
You also have to find your audience, because an artist does not exist without a recipient. I always warn young people not to get tense so much that they need to become the best right away. Why, at the age of 25, you immediately want to be Pągowski, who is now 67? What the hell? Be yourself for 10 or 15 years.
I did it. Today I would probably sit in the market square somewhere in Kazimierz and paint pictures. Although I don’t know what it would be like, maybe I would be the second Sasnal? Anyway, the fact that my professor, Waldemar Świerzy, persuaded me to switch to a poster made me reborn in 1973. Because as a child who draws nicely, I was convinced that the artist is a painter. My dad was devastated and said that posters are not art.
There is also a question of success, if you attain even the smallest one, you often want it every day. One might ask, “Aren’t you attracted to rewards?” But what will my next award give me today? I am most happy that you called and we are talking, it means that what I have to say is important. That the theatre called this morning and said they’d like a new poster. This is fun! The best reward you can have. So what if I will get a gold medal today for the poster I made yesterday? Maybe tomorrow or the day after tomorrow I won’t be able to make such a poster. What does this award give me? Nothing at all. In the past, awards turned me on, they gave me a kick. At one point I realized, when I talked to Janusz Głowacki, who spoke about the exodus from America to Poland of all the artists who had left there once: “You know, when you have won a gold medal in Poland 30 years ago, they will carry you in their arms for the rest of your life, whereas in the US you have to win that medal every day”. It is very tiring and not everyone can stand it.
I always warn parents who ask me such questions. For example, they heard that Sasnal is selling well, so they would like the child to be Sasnal. Lewandowski (eg. currently the best Polish football player, member of Bayern Munchen team) is a multi-millionaire, they would like him to kick the ball this way and they are torturing this child. Recently I told one girl: "If you feel it, it will always get you, there is no strength against it.” I also have a friend who is a marketer and she started painting recently, she’s doing pretty well. You can always practice art, putting a line on a white sheet of paper is an amazing experience. But if you want to turn it into a profession and you want to make a living from it, this is something completely different.
You’ve touched upon the subject of awards. You indeed answered a similar question in an interview with Dorota Wellman, but some time has passed since then. Do you feel fulfilled as an artist?
Of course I do, and in this fulfilment, the rewards are not so important. I remember that I won the gold medal 6 times in Los Angeles, because they remind me about it in all of my CVs and indeed no one in Poland has won a gold medal so many times. However, what I remember the most are conversations with people, orders, posters. I remember the last call from Agnieszka Holland, when she asked me for a poster for the movie “Obywatel Jones” (ed: “Mr. Jones”, Polish-Ukrainian-British film about a journalist documenting the famine in the Soviet Union in the early 1930s). The call from Janusz Kijowski announcing the play “Widok z Mostu” (“A view from the Bridge”) before the pandemic and how we were in despair that it would not be played, and in a moment there would be the premiere. These are the memories I have, and it turns me on. But the fact that 10 or 15 years ago I won an award, or even if I won this award yesterday, it’s just stroking my ego a bit. If this would translate into disappointment, it would be insanely risky, because if you build yourself on rewards, you have to earn rewards every day. There are no artists who make every poster an award, because it is totally impossible.
Andrzej Pągowski
Andrzej Pągowski
Are you able to capture the moment in which you felt that you are a fulfilled artist? I try to understand how it happens, did you function all the time as a fulfilled creator, or maybe it comes with some award or poster?
I cheated a bit, because this fulfilment is apparent. It would be complete if I knew that I have contracts for the next two years and that I can sleep well, but I don’t. Then I would be satisfied. However, I was aware very early that I was very good and that was enough for me. Every conversation with people: actors, directors, musicians, people for whom I worked, made me sure that I can cope. I was attacking completely unbelievable things, making music videos or designing memorial plaques.
I believe that one of the most beautiful plaques I have made is for Szancer (ed: Polish illustrator), which hangs in Warsaw. Just because I never made memorial boards and didn’t know how to make them. I made up my mind that the board should be a negative of his signature and drawing, which he portrayed himself with, and the metallurgist told me that you can’t do that. So I went to another one and that one moulded it. Three memorial boards are hanging on this building, and when I look at the ones for Cybis and Żukrowski, my blood is up. Also, often there were such situations that by going completely against the tide and having no clue, I discovered America.
I just drew this board, then someone else made the mock-up, someone else also moulded it. However, the idea itself came from me. I make sculptures and statuettes a lot. I work with Andrzej Renes, a sculptor, but I only draw for him, and he translates it into a three-dimensional object. Andrzej says: “You can’t do that this way” I say, “Well, do it.”
I also remember when a man who assembles computers called me and said that he would like me to make a logo for his company and something else. So I went to this company to see how it all works. I look, and there they are: a mouse and a software where you can draw something. I started to draw on it, after some time to make posters, then I persuaded the creators to come with me to the plein air. Back then, nobody imagined being able to draw on a computer. I think that in such situations, when a person has no experience, and here your previous question with education overlaps, throws himself at something, he or she may discover something completely different.
You can’t lock yourself up. If someone locks himself in one path, maybe he enjoys it, but not me. For me, the worst thing is when I finish imagining something and then I have to draw it, put this million lines to make it work out somehow. My wife always says to me: “Yesterday, it turned out so good. Why can’t you do the same today? ” I answer: “Well, why do it the same as yesterday, it makes no sense”.
If you would look back in time at your work, are there things you would do differently?
Yes of course. That’s why I love the poster, because I often look at it after it’s finished and would like to change it. Especially those posters from the old days, when I created very quickly and didn’t think twice. The name Pągowski is a brand, I cannot afford to do anything below a certain level of expectations, because I would feel bad about it. It is the same as if someone put Pan Samochodzik’s vehicle  (ed: “Mr. Car”, fictional hero created by the writer Zbigniew Nienacki) in a Mercedes showroom and pretended it was Mercedes.
Andrzej Pągowski
Andrzej Pągowski
Are the projects: “Wajda na nowo” and “Kieślowski na nowo” (ed: new interpretations of posters for Wajda’s and Kieślowski’s films) such attempts in which you try to do the same thing, but differently?
No, these are the projects that I do to keep in one place all the achievements of people whom I respected and respect very much till today. If it wasn’t for Kieślowski, many of my wonderful posters would not exist. Wajda was also a man who with his orders allowed me to exist. I always believe that in our discipline, such as in theatre or music or cabaret, there are records of this entire history. For example, you can see the entire output of Kabaret Starszych Panów, Dudek, and the representatives of the Polish Poster School, which is so adored that it is great, do not have many publications. There are also no movies. We do not know what Lenica, Starowieyski, Świerzy thought.
On the other hand, it is also about confronting information that I did not have access to. When Wajda started his films, I wasn’t born yet, in an artistic sense. When Krzysztof Kieślowski was making documents, nobody thought to make posters for them. Because I managed, thanks to Krzysztof’s decision, to make posters for all of his films, I thought that maybe I could really do it for all of them. And that’s where it all started.
Now I have just finished Wajda. Thanks to the pandemic, I say thanks, but I am not happy with it, because I would prefer it to be gone. I’ve finished the project, which I was supposed to finish next May, counting two posters a month, in October this year.
Besides, there I have total freedom, no one tells me to do anything. I don’t even have to write the names of the actors, because I made up my mind that there should be only the title, the director’s name and an English translation.
With Kieślowski it was more modest, with Wajda I managed to find very strong partners. If nothing happens that would destroy everything, next year in Suwałki, where he was born, we are organizing the Andrzej Wajda festival. Then my project will be shown for the first time and a book will be published with interviews with as many actors as possible who played in Wajda movies. Even those who only starred in one movie, such as with Janusz Gajos, who only starred in “Zemsta”.
What you say is very interesting. Could you tell me more about the planned book?
In this environment, I am probably the only graphic designer who was included in the chapter of the “Orły” (ed: Polish Film Awards) award, I do not know any other graphic artist. The same in the Polish Filmmakers Association, there are no graphic designers at all. So I feel that since they accepted me into this family, it is not because I jumped out of nowhere, but we have known each other for years. There is no director in Poland, starting from that period of the 70s and 80s, who would not cooperate with me. So indeed it is very easy for me to get to talk with everyone because they know who is coming to them. Janda or Olbrychski, they don’t refuse me, they just say “come in, we’ll talk”. These are completely different conversations than ones they have with journalists, because they put on masks in front of them. As I talked to Andrzej Seweryn, if I made it public, people would say: “Jesus this is not possible, he is not like Andrzej Seweryn at all.”
You mentioned that very often you observe your works in the city space. What does it really mean to “feel the street” in today’s internet and smartphone times? After all, when you look at this street, you will notice people walking along, with their eyes fixed on the screen of their phones, not paying attention to what is happening around them.
I am exactly where they are looking at. I don’t want to be present on the poles anymore, so I work very hard on social media because my audience is there. The street is on the internet today. Showing yourself on the internet gives you a huge visibility, whereas showing yourself on the street is almost invisible. People don’t observe at all from their cars, don’t watch while walking or sitting on the tram. Recently, I was at a presentation on the perception of billboards and large-format advertising, it just turned out that people on the tram are looking at the phone. That is why I value the internet and social media so much, because my audience is there. I can see it also from the side that I run a gallery where I sell my works and every activity in this channel translates into an increase in orders. So, today, the street is on the Internet.
I will also risk the statement that the Polish street is not aesthetically attractive, it is ugly. There are a lot of billboards and posters, it’s hard to focus your attention on something. I have a comparison. Now I live abroad, but before that, for 34 years I lived in Poland, in various places: Warsaw, Krakow or Katowice. When I compare this Polish street with the one I observe in Berlin or London, the western streets are not as distracting as Polish streets, there is also more art on them.
Yes, the Polish street is ugly. When I was a young boy and I was walking the streets, they were full of art, there were posters made by artists such as Świerzy, Starowieyski, Tomaszewski, Lenica, Mroszczak. Young people ask me: “Why were these things so nice back then?” Cheese packaging, a label for matches, a poster, a perfume, a logo of Moda Polska (ed: “Polish Fashion”, major Polish fashion brand during communist era) or CPN (ed. Polish fuel stations company during communist era). Precisely because artists made them. Today, however, what we see on the street is the responsibility of advertising agencies, where artists are unlikely to work. No self-respecting artist will work in an advertising agency.
Besides, I have worked in advertising agencies and I know how it looks, the coolest projects are rejected by clients for one reason or another. The worst thing that can happen to agencies is market research, which is to do a project and then a survey where people judge it. If I have read, I don’t know, hundreds of books, watched thousands of films, drawn millions of lines, I go to museums, and my work is watched by a man who has not read any book. He is almost illiterate and he decides what it should look like, we bend our creativity to him, this is paranoia.
Art is and should be educational, advertising is not educational. Advertisement wants to sell as soon as possible. I always laugh that when when we say “quick loan”, they paste a cheetah, when we say “loan at hand”, they paste money on a hand. There is no philosophy, no anecdote, no intelligent play. They say: “It is too wise because the customer, the recipient, will not understand it.” If we treat the recipient in this way, I always reply: “Ladies and gentlemen, they treat you like idiots”. If the poster has to be photographic, because you can see everything on it, they are actually saying: “You are such idiots that you cannot understand Pągowski’s poster from 10 years ago.” And people make big eyes and say, “But we don’t like the current posters. ” So I say, go to the distributor and tell him. However, no distributor will risk a graphic poster, because he will be afraid that if the names of the actors for whom they paid so much money are not visible, people will not go to the cinema. Or they say, “Your posters are so intelligent that people think - beware - that this is an ambitious movie and so they don’t go to see it.”
At the end of our conversation, I would like to ask a question, which appears in each of my interviews: what is your favourite colour?
Red, and the second one is orange.
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